Confused about legalities, despite info posted here in the past

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TawnyTim

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Ahoy! I purchased a NTLite license after seeing this tool on a Chris Titus Youtube video - it's amazing! So, I'm a pretty smart fella but I can't seem to discern the legalities of my particular use case. Most of the confusion is because I I'm reading about distribution and it seems like it comes down to the end user's license situation. referenced here on the forums

Here's my use case: I own a tech firm and we install Windows hundreds of times a year, usually for residential customers. These folks either had their hard drive upgraded to SSD, or their Windows installation was borked beyond repair. Most of these folks have legitimate Windows license keys and for those who don't, we sell and install license keys(legitimate keys). After we install Windows, we always go through and 'set it up'. We've got a certain way we like to set up machines for our customers. It would be really nice to have one Windows image which was already set up the way we do it manually. This will save us the post-install steps and a ton of time. So, I don't feel like we're 'distributing' these images - at least not in the sense that we're passing around the ISO. We're distributing, I suppose, just by merely installing it to a customer's machine. It seems like this should be alright though, because if there's nothing wrong with modifying system settings post-install, why would it be a problem doing it pre-install?

Are we good to do this?
 
IANAL, but here's my take:
Depends on how much customization.

Regardless of their Windows licensing, are you're redistributing or redeploying a modified Windows ISO? Within MS's user agreement, a given license holder can modified THEIR OWN image, but you cannot on their behalf. If you were to remove components, then it's out of bounds.

A tech firm can be reasonably expected to reinstall Windows for a client, download and install updates or add-on features, change default settings, and possibly install free-to-redistribute 3rd-party apps. Creating an updated image, with tweaked defaults, and Post-Setup automation of common tasks would fall into that expectation. Anything an informed client can do themselves, after installing from a clean ISO is fair game.

You could use this image for re-installation, but cannot share your build with them.
You would be expected to purchase a NTLite Pro license (as a business).
 
garlin said:
IANAL, but here's my take:
Depends on how much customization.

Regardless of their Windows licensing, are you're redistributing or redeploying a modified Windows ISO? Within MS's user agreement, a given license holder can modified THEIR OWN image, but you cannot on their behalf. If you were to remove components, then it's out of bounds.

A tech firm can be reasonably expected to reinstall Windows for a client, download and install updates or add-on features, change default settings, and possibly install free-to-redistribute 3rd-party apps. Creating an updated image, with tweaked defaults, and Post-Setup automation of common tasks would fall into that expectation. Anything an informed client can do themselves, after installing from a clean ISO is fair game.

You would be expected to purchase a NTLite Pro license (as a business).
Click to expand...
Thanks garlin ! I do own a NTLite pro license - as a tech business owner I'm respectful of the honor system in software development. Thanks for chiming in on this spelling it out for me.
 
I think Garlin is right on, and the only reason I'm adding is because I just so happened to contact Microsoft a few weeks ago to try to get an official yes/no answer about if I could distribute an ISO (free), so long as people still had to activate it with their own, legal license.

After a bunch of runaround from multiple tiers of escalation, the end result is that I never got an official answer from Microsoft employees, I did however get their personal opinions which can be summed up as, "If in doubt, don't do it." The best they could do was point me to the legal pages, but some of that stuff is generalized and could be interpreted multiple ways, so I asked to be put in touch with someone from the legal team, and they won't do it.

By time I was done reading their legal pages, talking to employees, and trying to find info on the internet, I think most of the legalese can by summarized in two major aspects:

1) Are you taking money that belongs to Microsoft? If so, don't do it.
2) Are you potentially making Microsoft look bad? If so, don't do it.

There was a guy who went to court in 2018 for violating both of those aspects, because he was selling recovery discs (violating #1), and he was counterfitting the packaging, among some other issues (violating #2). I think the reason that distributing ISO is probably also illegal, is because there's no reasonable way for Microsoft to monitor the data and make sure it doesn't violate #2, since someone could heavily tweak Windows and present it in a fashion that Microsoft never intended, which can make the operating system behave in a way that the user or Microsoft dislikes (causing users to contact Microsoft with bugs/problems caused by the tweaks).

Vice (article about lawsuit):
https://www.vice.com/en/article/gyz...or-a-year-for-infringing-microsofts-copyright

Microsoft (blog about lawsuit):
https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-...erfeiting-case-brought-by-the-u-s-government/
 
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My personal opinion, microsoft will not care how you tweaked the iso (with dism commands manually or ntlite pro or ntlite business)
*So do not share the custom iso you made. even it has no illegal activators or 3rd party software. because even with tiny change you might prevent how microsoft wants their product to work (telemetry etc.)
*You might share the tutorials if you really want to share something if it doesn't include any illegal changes.
*Lots of companies create their images with group policy rules and some soft tweaks only. And don't share them on public.
 
The key issues at point:

Windows Authenticity
MS wants to guarantee every copy of Windows is authentic, not from a piracy view, but to confirm no bad actions will happen because you didn't use a MS-provided physical or digital copy. When you redistribute even the exact same ISO, you create a new burden when one didn't exist before. You're adding doubts about Windows' security.

Therefore the license agreement says you DO NOT REDISTRIBUTE any images.

If you modify a copy of Windows you downloaded from MS, the burden is no longer on Microsoft to guarantee your safety. You cannot redistribute your modified copy, because you're creating a new burden again for MS.

Role of VAR's
Value Added Reseller is a specific role, where a company gets a formal agreement to allow them to pre-configure or setup Windows, on purchased or serviced systems (ie. support contract). The VAR agreement allows them to do things on behalf of the customer, with the presumption that the client has followed the proper licensing terms.

VAR's act as agents to perform normal work, but cannot modify Windows beyond what a normal user cannot do themselves.

They can use 3rd-party scripts or tools to speed up their work, but again -- the end result would be something their client could have conceivable done themselves. VAR's can use internally managed builds, but cannot share them with clients.

OEM Restrictions
MS does not tolerate custom ISO's, but what about Dell/HP/OEM versions of Windows? OEM's can repackage the Windows distribution, but cannot make any direct changes to Windows itself. If you look carefully, OEM's are only allowed to add items via the OEM Setup route.

They cannot inject custom drivers, nor pre-install apps into the image. All their additions must be deployed as Post-Setup actions. This guarantees the core Windows isn't broken by the OEM in way that would be different from another vendor.

The rules for OEM's are very strict, and carefully followed because they don't want to lose their volume purchase rights.

PS
Finally, intellectual property (IP) protection laws vary by country, and some countries don't bother taking their own laws seriously. Any discussion on this site needs to be guided by the MOST protective rules, rather than the LEAST. Just because LCA (Legal & Corporate Affairs) hasn't sued you or issued a DCMA strike yet, doesn't mean they don't care. You're just not currently high on their to-do list.

If you're speaking to MS support, they are low-paid vendors with no authority to provide a correct answer, and won't escalate your question. They're paid to answer the highest volume of questions at the lowest cost. The only correct answer can be reached by contacting MS LCA in Redmond, WA. I can already guess their response.

IANAL, but I've attended the normal manager's briefings on IP rights.
 
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