Scheduled Tasks - InstallService / ScanForUpdates...

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clarensio

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Per Nuhi and Garlin

I wanted to point out that although I have removed these "Scheduled Tasks", they are regularly active after installing the OS.I was wondering:
View attachment 11546

1) Am I wrong about something?
2) Maybe NTLite doesn't perform these operations "completely"?
3) Isn't it possible to eliminate them (in which case they could be excluded among the "possible" operations)?
Thank you
 
NTLite removed both tasks, and WU installed a CU which restored them. Whether a Remove reinstall cleans up previously deleted tasks, I don't know.
Code: 
findstr /i installservice 5035857.csv
"InstallService.dll","10.0.20348.2227","02-Mar-2024","21:51","2,752,512"
"InstallServiceTasks.dll","10.0.20348.2227","02-Mar-2024","21:51","323,584"
"InstallService.dll","10.0.20348.2227","02-Mar-2024","21:51","1,991,168"
"InstallServiceTasks.dll","10.0.20348.2227","02-Mar-2024","21:51","253,440"

And I already answered this exact question:
https://www.ntlite.com/community/in...p-settings-in-scheduled-tasks.3994/post-39201
 
garlin said:
And I already answered this exact question:
https://www.ntlite.com/community/in...p-settings-in-scheduled-tasks.3994/post-39201
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I apologize but I absolutely didn't remember that I had already asked the same question (you know, the years pass and I become more and more...) but the fact is that - I seem to have understood - that NTLite does its dirty work while CU restores what has been removed.

And in this sense I was asking (perhaps nuhi...) if NTLite cannot operate with greater "care" towards this feature given that the same problem has remained for 6 months now...
 
clarensio said:
Per Nuhi and Garlin

I wanted to point out that although I have removed these "Scheduled Tasks", they are regularly active after installing the OS.I was wondering:
View attachment 11546

1) Am I wrong about something?
2) Maybe NTLite doesn't perform these operations "completely"?
3) Isn't it possible to eliminate them (in which case they could be excluded among the "possible" operations)?
Thank you
Click to expand...
- If you reload the processed image, are those still on the image?

- Have you read what garlin replied?

- After updating Windows, run Image - Tools - Remove Reinstalls to cleanup, that is how Windows forces it.

Remove Reinstalls does not include individual Scheduled Tasks, will test this situation and expand it in the future update.
Thanks.
 
nuhi said:
- If you reload the processed image, are those still on the image?

- Have you read what garlin replied?

- After updating Windows, run Image - Tools - Remove Reinstalls to cleanup, that is how Windows forces it.

Remove Reinstalls does not include individual Scheduled Tasks, will test this situation and expand it in the future update.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
I can't control whether they are in the ISO but I can tell you that by installing the ISO (post NTLite including those deletions) without carrying out any Windows update, those tasks - in scheduled Windows tasks - are there and are active!

Then stopping and deleting those activities is not a big problem...
Thanks anyway
 
WU isn't just one background process, it's a framework that includes OOBE ZDP and other post-install tasks.

The same point I made from the previous thread, run a Post-Setup command to log which tasks exist.
Code: 
powershell "Get-ScheduledTask -TaskPath '\Microsoft\Windows\InstallService\' -ErrorAction SilentlyContinue" > C:\PostSetup_Machine.txt

Repeat this command 20 min. after the install. Or one hour. When is this task re-appearing? If it returns after Post-Setup, you can't say NTLite hasn't removed the task. It means it's not understood how new updates are done.
 
garlin said:
WU isn't just one background process, it's a framework that includes OOBE ZDP and other post-install tasks.

The same point I made from the previous thread, run a Post-Setup command to log which tasks exist.
Code: 
powershell "Get-ScheduledTask -TaskPath '\Microsoft\Windows\InstallService\' -ErrorAction SilentlyContinue" > C:\PostSetup_Machine.txt

Repeat this command 20 min. after the install. Or one hour. When is this task re-appearing? If it returns after Post-Setup, you can't say NTLite hasn't removed the task. It means it's not understood how new updates are done.
Click to expand...
That I didn't understand... that's for sure!

But could you explain to me why, immediately after installing the ISO obtained from NTLite - in which I deleted those scheduled tasks - with the network disconnected and without having done any Windows update, those scheduled tasks are still active there.And if those activities have truly been eliminated by NTLite, if I understand correctly, they shouldn't recur unless Windows updates are made, i.e. those changes set in NTLite and therefore in the ISO are as if they hadn't been made... I think ... but it is useless to continue on this sterile diatribe.

Then I repeat "I didn't understand anything" and I can't understand...

And anyway, thanks for your attention.
 
clarensio said:
That I didn't understand... that's for sure!

But could you explain to me why, immediately after installing the ISO obtained from NTLite - in which I deleted those scheduled tasks - with the network disconnected and without having done any Windows update, those scheduled tasks are still active there.And if those activities have truly been eliminated by NTLite, if I understand correctly, they shouldn't recur unless Windows updates are made, i.e. those changes set in NTLite and therefore in the ISO are as if they hadn't been made... I think ... but it is useless to continue on this sterile diatribe.

Then I repeat "I didn't understand anything" and I can't understand...

And anyway, thanks for your attention.
Click to expand...
Hey!

I'm not a technician, I'm just a common and layman user.

Speaking as a layman here, colleagues O garlin and O nuhi can correct me if I'm wrong or talking nonsense.

Windows automatically restores files, services, calendar tasks, etc. periodically, and if I'm not mistaken, as soon as the OS starts, Windows checks for any changes that it considers critical enough to harm the system and restores settings made by third-party programs or scripts, etc.

Therefore, after installing with the customized ISO on NTLite, even if you have changed not to install a certain program or scheduled task, the OS can restore these changes after installing the modified ISO.
 
Alex Corretor Do Brasil said:
Therefore, after installing with the customized ISO on NTLite, even if you have changed not to install a certain program or scheduled task, the OS can restore these changes after installing the modified ISO.
Click to expand...
I fully agree... so it is perfectly useless for those "modifications" to be modifiable since, even without a network, even without carrying out an Upgrade, they will still be reset.
 
clarensio said:
I fully agree... so it is perfectly useless for those "modifications" to be modifiable since, even without a network, even without carrying out an Upgrade, they will still be reset.
Click to expand...
If what I said is confirmed to be correct, yes.

One way would be for NTLite to block or signal the modifications that Windows restores by itself, this way we would know which ones we can modify or not as it does in the components section
 
You're asking an indeterminate question. NTLite does remove components or tasks from an image, that's final.

What NTLite doesn't control is the future of Monthly Updates. MS does what they think is required to fix security problems, and roll out new features. They don't care that someone has removed a random component, and you're disappointed it gets overwritten by an update. And because updates are cumulative, that same component will always get restored every month.

To have NTLite track what gets impacted across the different Windows releases is not a trivial task, and likely out-of-date by the time it's shipped. The solution NTLite provides is to run a Remove reinstall after applying updates, to clean up previously removed items.

Yes, it's a hassle. But no one has found a better, non-NTLite solution to the same problem.
 
garlin said:
You're asking an indeterminate question. NTLite does remove components or tasks from an image, that's final.

What NTLite doesn't control is the future of Monthly Updates. MS does what they think is required to fix security problems, and roll out new features. They don't care that someone has removed a random component, and you're disappointed it gets overwritten by an update. And because updates are cumulative, that same component will always get restored every month.

To have NTLite track what gets impacted across the different Windows releases is not a trivial task, and likely out-of-date by the time it's shipped. The solution NTLite provides is to run a Remove reinstall after applying updates, to clean up previously removed items.

Yes, it's a hassle. But no one has found a better, non-NTLite solution to the same problem.
Click to expand...
What I said is right then, right friend?
 
That's an impractical ask. That means every month, NTLite dev work and bug fixes will be stopped so someone can install the newly released Monthly Updates, and test every combination for a components reinstall, and then roll out a new NTLite. And repeat every 4-5 weeks?

I doubt that will happen. NTLite already has a Remove reinstall option, which is more than anyone else is offering in another modding product or project.
 
Alex Corretor Do Brasil said:
One way would be for NTLite to block or signal the modifications that Windows restores by itself, this way we would know which ones we can modify or not as it does in the components section
Click to expand...
You can do a few things to mitigate:

- disable or even remove Windows Update, just keep WU SVC, then you can update manually at will.
Installing updates via NTLite - Image - Tools - Install Updates works without WU.
With Image - Tools - Remove Reinstall right after, removing ("signaling") added parts.

- and of course you can update via lite ISOs using the Host Refresh method if the above fails or not clean enough.

Remove reinstalls will be improved over time, it began as remove returned component bits, but now it looks like it would be better to have an entire preset re-applied as well - thinking about it, leaning towards prompting which one to use, to avoid backing up to the destination OS.
In the meantime feel free to re-apply your own after CUs, and remove reinstalls, if some settings were changed.
 
I'm attempting to clarify the thread, because I can see Clarensio's issues clearly, but they're not being acknowledged the right way.

1) Clarensio insists that his install never touched internet, as he mentions in 3 separate replies, so either he's incorrect or these tasks are being restored by the time a user reaches the desktop. The solution is to wait until someone can verify the report as a bug or operator error.

2) A suggestion Clarensio is also trying to add is that he feels if NTLite is going to modify stuff that immediately reverts back to defaults on a clean install without internet, then his suggestion is to have NTLite remove those types of tweaks from the tool entirely, to prevent confusion.

3) Clarensio made it a point to say that he sometimes feels his threads aren't interpreted correctly, then he gets tired of going in circles trying to explain and eventually walks away, but that doesn't mean it's solved or he's satisfied. I want to illustrate this with another user's thread (link), where the poster is saying that the NTLite tool needs to be updated to fix a tweak that reverts after install. The solution in that thread is registry file workarounds, which is appropriate, but the concern is the NTLite tool doesn't always address these valid reports too.

Hopefully that helps move things forward. Clarensio, please correct me if I'm mistaken on anything. I've never uninstalled tasks yet, but I agree with #2 and #3 as concepts, since I've personally ran across some of the same things in the NTLite tool, my own bug reports, and while helping others.
 
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Hellbovine said:
I'm attempting to clarify the thread, because I can see Clarensio's issues clearly, but they're not being acknowledged the right way.

1) Clarensio insists that his install never touched internet, as he mentions in 3 separate replies, so either he's incorrect or these tasks are being restored by the time a user reaches the desktop. The solution is to wait until someone can verify the report as a bug or operator error.

2) A suggestion Clarensio is also trying to add is that he feels if NTLite is going to modify stuff that immediately reverts back to defaults on a clean install without internet, then his suggestion is to have NTLite remove those types of tweaks from the tool entirely, to prevent confusion.

3) Clarensio made it a point to say that he sometimes feels his threads aren't interpreted correctly, then he gets tired of going in circles trying to explain and eventually walks away, but that doesn't mean it's solved or he's satisfied. I want to illustrate this with another user's thread (link), where the poster is saying that the NTLite tool needs to be updated to fix a tweak that reverts after install. The solution in that thread is registry file workarounds, which is appropriate, but the concern is the NTLite tool doesn't always address these valid reports too.

Hopefully that helps move things forward. Clarensio, please correct me if I'm mistaken on anything. I've never uninstalled tasks yet, but I agree with #2 and #3 as concepts, since I've personally ran across some of the same things in the NTLite tool, my own bug reports, and while helping others.
Click to expand...
I thank you for your attention and indeed the "spirit" that has always inspired me (perhaps sometimes in an apparently uncooperative form due to my very poor knowledge of the English language - I am quite old, recently retired but still, I hope sufficiently alert: this attitude, and I say this from the bottom of my heart, I hope is due to the use of Google Translator because in my heart I have never, ever assumed negative attitudes.

Returning to the topic in question and saying that I personally apologized if my attitude appeared aggressive or wrong, I agree with what you said:
- I'm seeing some "things" about NTLite that I don't understand
- In my professional life I have always been used, within the limits of my knowledge (certainly not as in-depth as the topics would require) to try and try and try again... before asking for help
- And this has been the spirit that in every argument I have produced (and I apologize if I may have given the impression of "criticizing" or "denigrating" NTLite which I consider to be a wonderful software and which has allowed me to solve big business problems: asking a problem to receive confirmations (on NTLite) or to suggest corrections to my work
- The activities I have been carrying out have been the same for several years - at least 4 - and always with the help of the same software
- It is clear to everyone that with the evolution of Windows or NTLite things can (and sometimes must) change
- That the suggestions I receive (and I have always received and for this I will never thank Garlin, Nuhi and many others enough...) are sometimes very technical is however undeniable and if we add to this my idiosyncrasy with the English language ...

And I thank you Hellbovine for having well interpreted the spirit that has always permeated me (and I hope continues for a long time to come).

Sometimes many times I hoped to receive, as an answer to my questions asked, "you didn't understand anything, you're wrong..." instead of having to turn (given the difficulties with the language) answers perhaps "hidden" in other arguments.

Thank you all for your attention and sorry once again if my "attitude" seemed inappropriate

Using google translate
 
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