What am I doing wrong?

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atay3

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I recently got NTLite (licensed) and tried a few different pre-made community provided XML's and eventually moved to the pre-made Gaming preset that NTLite provides to try and narrow down my problem, but they all behave the same. I have a bunch of weird issues that happen.

When first starting the PC, the welcome spinner screen sits for 5-10 seconds, on Stock W11 25h2, I see this screen for 1 second at most. Another issue, whenever I launch certain apps like Steam, the first launch completely locks up the PC for 4-5 seconds, this happens with quite a few different apps. After the first launch, the program no longer locks up the PC if I close/relaunch it. My chipset drivers also hard lock PC requiring restart during first launch install, but after restarting, they launch and install fine.

  • I'm grabbing latest 25h2 ISO from MS directly
  • I extract the ISO by mounting it using Windows built-in mounting feature
  • Copy the contents of the mounted ISO to a folder on desktop
  • Load the extracted directory in NTLITE and load the PRO version of W11 25h2
  • Select Gaming preset in Components for removal
  • Process and create ISO, then drag my created ISO to my Ventoy drive
  • Disconnect ethernet cable during setup process and use start ms-cxh:localonly for local account creation
  • Windows installation finishes and comes to the desktop, I install vc++ redistributable all-in-one pack, then install drivers that I get from manufacture websites
I do the same exact process on stock W11 25h2 and it doesn't have any of the weird issues I listed above. Am I missing something?
 
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Windows 25H2 has been weird as of late. Try doing live removals and only remove a few things at a time that you feel you don't need and try again. Make sure you backup each time just in case you do find what is causing the issue.

I found presets here are after you have done everything you feel you wanted to do and wanted to maybe add a few more things you might have missed or give more options.

25H2 needs a careful hand more then 23H2 for example.
 
Necrosaro said:
Windows 25H2 has been weird as of late. Try doing live removals and only remove a few things at a time that you feel you don't need and try again. Make sure you backup each time just in case you do find what is causing the issue.

I found presets here are after you have done everything you feel you wanted to do and wanted to maybe add a few more things you might have missed or give more options.

25H2 needs a careful hand more then 23H2 for example.
Click to expand...

That's too much work for me. I kind of expected at least the built-in preset in NTLITE to provide a decent experience. I'd rather go back to tools like microwin that don't suffer from these issues than build 10 different ISO's and testing them one by one. Wish I knew this before purchasing a license. Seems kind of pointless to have all the safety guardrails in NTLITE when they don't help prevent issues like this.
 
NTLite works best when you DIY from scratch. I tried presets in the past and they did not work for me to well either.

Yes, often you need to build and test a bunch of ISOs one by one. NTLite is way more powerful but it is also way more tedious and more time consuming than using something like microwin, but it gives you a lot more granular control over the build and the post-install automation and the results are a lot more customized to your needs and more satisfying. I tried microwin in the past and it wasn't for me. NTLite gave me much better results that matched my needs closer, but yeah, it's not easy and not a quick solution.

I'd suggest you take a break and try again, from scratch, with a clear head and different expectations. Don't give up on NTLite, it's awesome.

atay3 said:
Disconnect ethernet cable during setup process and use start ms-cxh:localonly for local account creation
Click to expand...

You need to build a fully unattended ISO and there is no need to disconnect the networks or anything like that. It'll boot to a fully customized desktop, account created and all that stuff. There is an entire Unattended section in NTLite, use that.

What usually happens is that people remove way too many components. There are crazy interdependencies in Windows that break unrelated things. Like, removing Connected Devices Platform breaks the Customization or Display settings on many machines. This is just one example, there are more. You need to be aware of this. I suspect the gamers preset component removal is too aggressive and breaks things in 25H2.

Most of those gotchas are covered on this forum. The first general rule of a thumb is that the less you remove the more stable and more compatible system you'll end up with. And the second rule is: if you don't know what it does, leave it alone.

Most people just remove the AI stuff (Recall, Copilot), OneDrive, Edge maybe Xbox and those are mostly safe.

PS. And yeah, it gets more difficult with every annual Windows 11 release. 24H2 was a lot more difficult than 23H2. 25H2 was more like 24H2 though, for me. My 25H2 built is smooth and stable, I expected issues but didn't have any. I feel it's better than my 24H2. Necrosaro said few times that it was problematic, maybe I got lucky. I installed it on three desktops and one laptop and it's been smooth sailing. Even Explorer feels faster.

So yeah, toss the presets, take a deep breath and start your own build from scratch, slowly and carefully. Read the forums, lots of possible issues are already known and discussed. Ask question if in doubt.
 
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atay3 said:
That's too much work for me. I kind of expected at least the built-in preset in NTLITE to provide a decent experience. I'd rather go back to tools like microwin that don't suffer from these issues than build 10 different ISO's and testing them one by one. Wish I knew this before purchasing a license. Seems kind of pointless to have all the safety guardrails in NTLITE when they don't help prevent issues like this.
Click to expand...
Nothing happens without you or someone else has done a bit of work and learning. You had to learn windows or any other operating system on how it works. You had to learn your job to make money.

Having things handed already done can be a easy way out but if you truely get to know this program it can be like any other thing in life. You don't have to do it all at once like learning to swim by jumping into the deep end. Just a little every once in a bit and before you know it you will have the reigns figured out and be better for it.
 
I agree with the above, but a definitive list of what is 'really' safe to remove and what is 'not'? would go a long way to making it a much more comfortable experience. A 'what breaks what' etc.

I know MS are always switching, and tying more stuff into things, here and there, but it is getting near to the point where one cant remove anything without breaking something else.
 
Necrosaro said:
Windows 25H2 has been weird as of late. Try doing live removals and only remove a few things at a time that you feel you don't need and try again. Make sure you backup each time just in case you do find what is causing the issue.
Click to expand...
"Windows 25H2 has been weird as of late"

Following this one - because there is definitely something going on. AND it's not all specific JUST to 25H2

For a known good reference point - I built a killer 25H2 custom ISO back on Oct 10, 2025 using whatever version NTLite was available then, using my usual "golden" settings and this specific "GE" release of the first 25H2 ISO from MS:

en-us_windows_11_business_editions_version_25h2_x64_dvd_41c521e7

The resulting install ISO was darn near perfect. Compiled super fast, installed to a VM super fast and worked flawlessly as of first install into a new Hyper-V VM.

Yesterday - after a weekend of nasty ass struggles with the Jan 2026 25H2 ISO from MS - I did a super clean, setting by setting, item by item recreation of my Oct 10, 2025 template (settings that have served me well for almost 5 years now) using that exact initial Sept 2025 25H2 ISO image again - and once again NTLite goes rouge - taking easily twice as long to produce my final ISO - and to really sink it home - I am seeing this now midway through Setup:

1770642675289.png

THEN - to ensure I wasn't seeing things (AND to take 25H2 out of the picture all together) - I whipped out the official Win 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC (24H2) image from MS - did a step by step rebuild of my standard new template (using my same 5 year old "golden" settings) and it too went right into the twilight zone. But not with the message above...

Immediately after Restart 3 - where the message "Just a moment" is displayed with a circle of white dots going round and round. In my case - I see "Just a moment" for about 15-20 seconds - then Setup does a transition to a pure black window (like something good was "about" to happen) but stayed there to infinity. For kicks I waited it out for 20 minutes but the setup routine NEVER returned. No messages, no nothing. Just a black screen. Had to kill the VM and delete the fileset - useless again.

So I will "upgrade" the overall statement that not only 'might" 25H2 be acting weird but I can confirm now that OTHER versions on Win 11 are also acting strange - so strange in fact that I believe something is actually not right with NT Lite at this moment as well.

Been doing this a LONG time and I can never remember this app acting so odd with so many different ISOs.

S
 
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scaramonga said:
I agree with the above, but a definitive list of what is 'really' safe to remove and what is 'not'? would go a long way to making it a much more comfortable experience. A 'what breaks what' etc.

I know MS are always switching, and tying more stuff into things, here and there, but it is getting near to the point where one cant remove anything without breaking something else.
Click to expand...
For sure! Though I suspect that it is not possible and may even be getting worse. There are many things that I guess even Nuhi and his team do not know and MS makes it harder by constantly moving and changing things.

Also, it's not really true that "one cant remove anything without breaking something else." That's a bit of exaggeration there, though I can understand the frustration. There are many things that can be safely removed, though that "something else" depends on your needs.

Here are some things (not a complete list) I removed from my recent Windows 11 builds with no bad side effects:

Copilot
Recall
Core AI
Microsoft Machine Learning
Cross Device Resume
Edge (I have to keep Webview 2 as some of my apps use it)
Offline Files
OneDrive (though removing MS Sync Framework breaks Dropbox client but not all may care)
SyncHost, Settings Sync
Pluton Security Processor
Remote Registry
Telephony
Windows Media Player
Xbox, Gamebar, DVR (keep XBox Identity Provider as it is need to log in to the Store and removing GameMode breaks stuff).
ZIP and CAB Folders (I prefer 7zip integration)
Blocked Feature Updates and Automatic Windows updates (heed Garlin's warning here: https://www.ntlite.com/community/in...from-restoring-removed-things.5914/post-55613)

I've had this Win 11 25H2 build on three PCs and one laptop since early last week and nothing is broken. I must have gotten lucky because it's smooth and stable. I like it better than my previous 24H2 build. There was an update on Jan 26th or 27th that apparently fixed a bunch of issues and I got that one integrated.
 
Sonicmojo said:
Immediately after Restart 3 - where the message "Just a moment" is displayed with a circle of white dots going round and round. In my case - I see "Just a moment" for about 15-20 seconds - then Setup does a transition to a pure black window (like something good was "about" to happen) but stayed there to infinity. For kicks I waited it out for 20 minutes but the setup routine NEVER returned. No messages, no nothing. Just a black screen. Had to kill the VM and delete the fileset - useless again.
Click to expand...
VMware? I saw that behavior when using an older Workstation Pro 17.6.4. Then I installed the new Workstation Pro 25H2-24995812 and that one was much better. I deleted all files except for the .vmdk and the .vmx. I'm not really 100% sure what the issue was but I feel it was a VMWare problem.
 
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Here are my App removes:

1770648081669.png

AND the rest

Remove->Components->Multimedia: Game Explorer, Pen Service, Snipping Tool, Windows Disc Image Burning Tool, Xbox Core

Remove->Components->Network: Microsoft Edge Legacy, Payments->Wallet Service

Remove->Components->Remoting and Privacy: Cloud Files API (OneDrive),Remote Assistance, Shared PC Mode

Remove->Components->System Apps: Content Delivery Manager, Eye Control, Microsoft Edge Dev Tools, Microsoft Family Safety, Take a Test, VP9 Video, Windows Barcode, Windows Feature Experience Pack - CoreAI, Xbox Game UI

Remove->Components->System: Cache and Temp Files, Retail Demo Content, Time Travel Debugger, Unix Socket, User Choice Protection, User Experience Virtualization, Windows AI Machine Learning, Windows Mixed Reality, Zip and Cab Folder

Outside of maybe a small handful of newer things as of Fall 2025 - these basic listings have work flawlessly for me - for years now...but no more.

Something (or a combination of "somethings") in here - are now resulting a botched ISOs that will not complete.

Have also been reading here and there the unattend files that NTLite creates may also be suspect now with the more "modern setup" found in 25H2/24H2 - at least starting back sometime AFTER Oct 2025.

Would love it if anyone sees a nasty trend in here that I have somehow overlooked.

S
 
Anonymous Internet User said:
VMware? I saw that behavior when using an older Workstation Pro 17.6.4. Then I installed the new Workstation Pro 25H2-24995812 and that one was much better. I'm not really 100% what the issue was but I feel it was a VMWare problem.
Click to expand...

Nope - all Hyper-V here.

Have been using this environment for NTLite testing for years. And I do not remove any drivers or anything else from any ISO that would compromise Setup like I am seeing now. Highly unlikely this has anything to do Hyper-V at all.

My money is on something going on within NT Lite itself OR - inexplicably - me suddenly removing something that is totally breaking every ISO I build now. Even ones with verified known good templates that worked flawlessly just a few months prior.

S
 
Sonicmojo said:
Here are my App removes:

...
Click to expand...

Apps

I removed the same from 25H2 and more. I doubt it's the apps.

Components

Mostly the same too, and even more. I don't remove these, however:

User Experience Virtualization - this one is a service, if I have the choice I'd rather disable a service post-install than remove components from the image. It's easier to turn it back on if I find that it breaks something.

Time Travel Debugger - not sure what this one does, so I keep it.

User Choice Protection - this sounds like it may be useful and it never caused me any issues, so I keep it.

Microsoft Family Safety - it doesn't bother me.

VP9 Video - may be of use actually.

Content Delivery Manager - I think this is related to Windows Store and I need the Store for two apps. I wonder is this may be worth a closer look at, as this is also supposed to be involved with Windows Update, maybe the installer is trying to pull something from the web? Dunno, just guessing.

So I kept these above but none of these, or the others, strike me like something that would break the installation.

You do not enable the legacy OOB options under Unattended, right? NTLIte warns you not to do that.

Yeah, except for Content Delivery Manager I don't see anything suspicuous in your removals, I actually remove even more than that.

There is definitely a lot different in 25H2. Even 24H2 was much harder than 23H2. So, yeah, things that we successfully removed earlier may now cause issues in 25H2.

Sorry, I wish I could be more helpful.
 
Anonymous Internet User said:
Content Delivery Manager - I think this is related to Windows Store and I need the Store for two apps. I wonder is this may be worth a closer look at, as this is also supposed to be involved with Windows Update, maybe the installer is trying to pull something from the web? Dunno, just guessing.

So I kept these above but none of these, or the others, strike me like something that would break the installation.
Click to expand...

Been removing this one for a long while now.

If you do not remove it (as I understand it) your Start menu will be littered with the CandyCrush crap we really do not want - at least it made this easy in the past.

I am building out a new ISO as we speak - testing all sorts of oddball combos. If I come up with something on this one (CDM) I will post back.

S
 
Update:

Added OneDrive, Start Experience and Widgets back in
Changed to Legacy Setup Mode (vs Modern)
No other changes
Build time:

1770652420044.png

Setup End Result:

1770652442553.png

Failure.

Back we go.

S
 
Sonicmojo said:
Been removing this one for a long while now.

If you do not remove it (as I understand it) your Start menu will be littered with the CandyCrush crap we really do not want - at least it made this easy in the past.
Click to expand...
I never remove it and I don't get those, my Start Menus is empty. There are options in the NTLite's Settings section that prevent that crap from being installed by setting policies. Sorry, I archived all my NTLite working folders, so I can't take a screenshot, but there are several (many) settings for app installs, etc, I think it's under Privacy.

So, this is a moving target, as we know. So maybe something depends on this now? I'm just guessing since I have not seen anything else on your list that looked suspicious to me.

Sonicmojo said:
Added OneDrive, Start Experience and Widgets back in
Click to expand...

Yeah, these are not the culprits, I have these removed in my build 25H2 for sure.

Sonicmojo said:
Changed to Legacy Setup Mode (vs Modern)
Click to expand...

Yeah, this doesn't matter either AFAIK.

I'm out of ideas. Maybe someone else will have some fresh thoughts.
 
Here is what I see on that control within NTLite:

1770653755226.png

Reworking my template again right now - will add this back in and see what transpires...

S
 
I remove Content Delivery Manager and no problem for me with 25h2
And the others components too, with clean install
 
tistou77 said:
I remove Content Delivery Manager and no problem for me with 25h2
And the others components too, with clean install
Click to expand...

Yes - I have been removing this - forever - and no issues whatsover. This new build is almost done - added CDM back in - but I do not expect this will make any difference.

Also will be installing NT Lite (v2025.10.10631) on another machine here shortly. This was the version I used back on Oct 2025 to create my last known good awesome ISO - that uses all my current template settings and compiled and installed perfectly.

I am going to recreate that exact build with this version of NT Lite and the actual template that is written to that ISO and figure out where the real issue is. As I do not believe that suddenly my template is "broken" (for every build I attempt) or every 25H2 ISO that MS issued since last Sept 2025 is faulty either.

Something else is up here.

S
 
Update:

Removed Start Experience and Widgets
Changed back to Modern Setup Mode
Added CDM back in
No other changes

Build time:

1770654916384.png

Longest of the last three I have done.

Installing this now to new VM - will report back

S
 
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