Windows updates logic - Beginner's question sorry

BadHellie

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I am very embarrassed but being still a beginner I really ignore this aspect, please try to be patient with me and don't make me feel even more uncomfortable ;)
I really haven't understood how updates work yet. I tried to read the guide and help sections but that didn't help, evidently I still miss the A-B-C... :(
Any link/tutorial which explains their logic to newbies btw ?

As a premise, my goal and my strict policy is disabling updates, I don't care of them, I don't care of security, I always disable them eradicating any updating component or service, I want to start with the most up-to-date ISO already, cos I am not going to update in later in ANY way (most of my machines are meant to have blocked Internet access in the router firewall for security reasons).

I downloaded my Win10 22H2 ISO from uupdump, enabling the option to include updates, since I (kind of) understood there you can get an already up-to-date image.
But I fail to understand if these entities called "updates" are already integrated/applied (patched or whatever) or they are just included, and they get applied by NTL or rather by Windows itself during the installation stage (this is where I miss the A of the A-B-C).

Fact is, when I load my Win10 ISO in NTL to start tweaking, in the Updates page I see a long list of updates in the right box, some are labeled "staged", some "installed". And I don't know if this is the list of the updates included in the ISO or whatever else (this is where I miss the B of the A-B-C).
At this point, I am unsure whether I have to add anything manually in the left box ("Add") or things are rather automatic. As a fact, when I press Apply->Process, I don't see any "update" operation in the list of the tasks performed (or to be performed). Also, when I proceed to physically install the ISO on the target test machine, at the first stages of the installer (those with the % of completion on the right) I noticed "Applying updates...", and I am not sure if the included updates are actually applied at this stage, or whatever else.

Now, I realized that at boot I have a service which I removed (the service is Global Desktop Spotlight), which (if I don't go wrong) should originate from Windows Features Experience Pack, which I have REMOVED ! Thus, I suspect a relevant update is applied later, which nullifies my removal. And then I fear a same thing may happen to many other tweaks/removals !!!
Also, somewhere I read (or was told, IDR) to proceed in a certain way, i.e to first apply updates, then apply tweaks. Well, this is really where I miss the C of the A-B-C. I don't know how to apply updates in a separate stage. Again, keep bearing patience with me. If I invoke Tools / Install Updates it looks like NTL is rather trying to install updates to my host OS and not to the ISO I am working on, which is something I do not want (I don't want NTL to tamper with the host machine !!!) - Ok this is the D I miss from the A-B-C.

Well, if somebody (a Saint ?) with enough patience can help me figure out these basic topics, I would be grateful ^_^
 
Hi,

check the videos at the Support page, basically to just update an image:
- add ISO to the list
- load an edition directly from it (it will create edit image cache first)
- go to Updates page on the left
- click Add - Latest online updates, Enqueue
- go to Apply page, tick Create ISO, Process, done.

Updates are integrated, meaning already pre-installed to the image, active files will be the newest on install.
Mechanism used is DISM, part of Windows official APIs for updating.

Obsolete updates can be set as Staged. These days they can be used by Windows updates Delta compression where it takes those older ones as reference.
To clean that up a bit, use DISM Update Cleanup (Compatible) in the updating process.

Removals are sequenced after the updates, so if you see some leftover, it can be tackled with a proper report - please open a new topic if you see that a removed component is present - there are more Windows Feature Experience packs, Desktop and Core, or maybe that's Win11 only... anyway please confirm with a preset and I'll test it.

Do all tasks in one go, tool will sort them, report any weirdness or an idea how to improve it.

Read the tooltip of Install Updates wizard, it is for the host, to quickly update it.

Btw since you don't want to update Windows live, I suggest to disable Servicing Stack compatibility option in Components - toolbar Compatibility, and remove Windows Update.
Then instead of just reinstalling to update, you can also update via Host Refresh (in-place update with another prepared ISO).
That way you get the best of both worlds, smaller footprint, no Windows Update, and easy updates down the line, maybe even monthly.
 
Thank you Nuhi for you kind and comprehensive answer ! I now understood these details better, really. So you are pretty confirming that no update is applied automatically after my tweaks. That's really what I wanted to know.
I just had some doubts on what exactly happens during Windows setup, when it says "Installing updates..." (see attached screenshot), cos I feared some updates included in the ISO might get installed here, overwriting my tweaks.
So I must now check the leftover better and possibly report it to a new thread, OK.
It is not easy, given those Spotlight things in Task Manager really appear for a short time and only at boot, but I will investigate !
Thank you also for the last further suggestions.
 
Please, sorry for insisting, can somebody kindly clarify this point to me ?
What does happen exactly during early setup, when Windows says "Installing updates" ?
I am asking because I am finding a lot of "leftovers" (eg. I have removed SmartScreen yet I see smartscreen executables in C:\ and it bothers when I install files from non trusted publishers; I have removed Windows Experience Pack yet I find a lot of sh*it from it like Iris Service, Desktop Spollight and Rule Engine)... therefore, my suspect is that at this stage some updates are installed, overwriting parts one has removed with NTL...
 
Normal procedure using NTL is:
1) Load and update (if not lastest UUP image) - Apply and do nothing else.
2) Load and do preset (removals and settings + all other stuff in Post-Setup) - Apply
3) Load image again and do DISM Update Cleanup (Compatible) as it now also remove all the updated and removed components.
Doing it in another sequence make install larger as NTL can't find out when and where components got removed or updated.
 
With an image, you can't integrate an update if components have already been deleted, you'll get the message "missing files" or something like that
Probably the same when installing them under Windows (I haven't installed any since the beginning of W7)
For the component traces you have, check with NTLite if the components are still present or absent in the component list

The "procedure" for nuhi and me (outside of testing)

Load image and do everything we want to do (integrate update, remove components, integrate registry key, drivers, modify settings, etc...
Finally everything that NTLite offers

NTLite is very well done and does the tasks in the necessary order
In Offline I only have 1 preset (and 1 preset for in Live)

The only times we do it in several times is to do tests with an LCU for example, we integrate the update, apply and we use this image for the tests
 
Uhm... no, sorry, evidently I still miss some basics about updates !!! If at least there were a section covering this well for beginners... sigh :(

Let's summarize:
1. I do NOT work LIVE, just OFFLINE.
2. I do NOT need updates, I have removed/disabled all updating services and stuff
3. Yet I prefer to start with an ISO which already contains the most recent updates, so I got my ISO from uupdump.net
4. My ISO contains a lot of updates which are listed in the right box, either as 'staged' or as 'installed'
5. I never worked with more than one NTL pass. As I said before, I ignore any other more complicated workflow than the 'basic' one (by now).

So. I load the original ISO and I apply all tweaks/removals/post-setup/hives/settings as per my Preset (at present, I have 481 components removed.)
I choose Apply and Process to generate my ISO, i.e *final product* ready to be installed on a target machine.

Ok, but I now made a TEST which revealed me that evidently I still miss some fundamentals ! Namely:

if I reload in NTL the ISO just generated, and I apply my preset again, I still see 4 components removed, while I'd expect to see none !!!!
In fact, some components which I had removed, including Windows Feature Experience Pack, are back in place ! So I have to remove it again ! What is up ???
Once I understand this I think I have understood everything and will stop bothering lol
If somebody so patient can help me figure this out I am very grateful...
 
For components that are still present after deletion (when you reload), have you protected some files?
For Windows Feature Experience Pack, I delete them and it does not appear after, so there would be a trace of this component after its deletion

But there are several Windows Feature Experience Pack components (Core, Desktop, etc...) do not confuse them
I delete them all except the Core
 
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No I have not protected anything, I disabled most protections under my own responsibility.
Damn... I am struggling, trying and retrying, I create the ISO removing WFEP, I then reload the new ISO in NTL and pretty everything is gone but WFEP is still there plus other 3 components !!! That's crazy.

ADDITION: Well, in case somebody wants to investigate, I have attached the NTL logs of
-Loading the original ISO (WIN10PRO_22H2_x64_UP.ISO)
-Enable the preset (Step3g.xml)
-Apply/Process to generate the new iso (NTLite.ISO)

As you can see from the log, Windows Feature Experience Pack is listed in the things which get removed.
But when I load NTLite.ISO back in NTL, four removed components including WFEP are back !
 
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Put a screen of the deleted WFEP and a screen when you reload the image to see which WFEP component it is
 
According to preset Step3g it's Windows 10 Professional 22H2 x64 - 10.0.19045.5073
 
Ah yes, sorry then, I didn't pay attention to the Windows version
 
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