What am I doing wrong?

[Anonymous Internet User]

This is great info. Can you expand on how you handle moving from Steps 1-2 etc.

Example - once you "build" the actual ISO in Step 1 - is that .wim considered your "step 1" preset?

And when you move to Step 2 etc - are you actually loading the "modified" .wim (from Step 1) and applying your REG files etc to this *.wim.?

Effectively creating a "new" *.wim and building it up in layers?

I have always started from a clean ISO - every time. And I have also only ever applied a master preset (end to end) each time.

Have never really taken the time to consider working in stages - and maybe I should

Any info you can share would be great.

S

Sorry, the steps were numbered wrong in that post: 1, 2, 2, 3. I fixed that.

There is no preset yet after step 1. This step only integrates Windows Updates, no other modifications are done. After that, I backup entire NTLite working and program directories and move the backups aside and continue working on the existing build normally. Maybe I'm doing this the hard way but I found this to be the easiest way to go back to a previous, good build.

There is one thing I don't actually fully understand about Windows Updates integration as it seems that only the Cumulative Update actually gets installed, integrated in the image itself. But that's OK, since this is the biggest one to integrate. Also, at step 1 you may remove unneeded editions from the image. This takes a while too, so preserving this step alone will save you some time if you ever have to revert.

So, this is my first clean base to go back to, I keep a copy untouched. After that I go to step 2 and add all the stuff in that step Then, if it passes testing in a VM, I save that one too, both the working directory and the program directory, separately from the first backup. This is why a fast SSD is needed because the working dir can grow over 30GB and have hundreds of thousands of files. So this my second base build, just additions, no removals. This is the stuff that can be changed easily if something breaks or is set wrong. Set this one aside too.

Now, I start step 3 and start actual removals. If I build and test an image after this step and it's broken, then I literally trash both NTLite program and working directories and copy both from step 2 and start removals over from scratch. (Note: You can use FreeFileSync to do all this backing up and copying so it only copies files that are different but you need to be careful how you set up FFS; but it will speed things up signidicantly). This is because you can't go back and undo most removals the way you can udo REG files, post-install or settings.

Maybe there is a better way, I tried achieving this by reusing the XML files but I got into problems. This is why I just backup the whole thing and go back to it if stuff breaks. Also, I take screenshots and notes of what I'm removing so it's easier to find the culprit that broke the image. And this is also why I start with known things and leave uncertain removals for later. Once I get a working image with all the basic things removed then I backup that one too. Each consecutive backup becomes by base to revert to. I do not move/copy presets, I keep whatever preset was copied along with the last backup.

So yeah, I end up with 100-200GB of stuff. But once I install the image on actual hardware and use it for a while, I only keep the first backup (Updates Only) and the last good one; and trash the intermediate backups. I use 7zip Store mode to archive this in small segments and save it to an external disk.

Not sure if this makes sense the way I'm trying to explain it, ask if you need any clarification.

This may seem convoluted but I used this methodology with Win 11 24H2 and 25H2 and got very good results. I was able to go back to previous backups instead of starting from scratch.

Even if you don't do all these backups, working in stages and testing intermediate builds seem like a good idea to me.

 

[scaramonga]

OK.

Installed latest, 26200.7840.260206-2000.25H2, released today, and removed usual bloat. Surprisingly?, all seems fine I was a little conservative with removal procedure this time, but it does seem to be running rather well, thus far. Laptop build, not desktop.

I ran the usual afterwards in system, all good

 

[atay3]

Probably not a good idea. I would not use an image modified by other tools with NTLite.

Isn't it safe to have a modified host machine, as long as you aren't editing that host machine itself and instead loading/modifying a stock ISO? That's what I'm doing. I'm probably wrong, but for some reason I had the thought in my head that stock Windows was interfering some way in the ISO creation process.

I noticed with certain XML that had Defender stripped, once I landed on desktop, defender was present and running, but other removals worked. Once I disconnect ethernet and install the same exact ISO that showed Defender running after install, Defender didn't show up running. That's why I disconnect my Ethernet during setup process and force a local account creation, as I think Windows fixes it or does something to re-enable it? If they're doing that, who knows what else they're doing. Might be different for wifi since it requires a password to connect, but on ethernet, it will can grab whatever it wants with no input, as long as your drivers are covered by the built-in driver pack. I think people using unattended might be bypassing this, but I'm still learning and going section by section.

That's why I moved to a modified host machine that has all the security stuff disabled and it seems all my problems disappeared. I'm not doing anything differently from the original process I described in the original post. I'm not building on top of the modified base install or modifying that, I'm still using a stock iso when mounting/stripping.

I'm processing an ISO now with the built-in gaming preset and will report back soon how it goes.

 

[atay3]

Welp, same problems cropped up. So either it's the Gaming preset, or something I'm doing wrong when unloading the directory to start over fresh and old settings conflicting with new, bug, or something. No clue. I use the forget and delete options in the image window, re-extract the iso to a new folder on desktop to be safe (not sure if the older directory files were being modified or not during the ntlite process), and re-mount it in NTLite and start fresh.

Maybe I'll come back to it again some time next week and try stripping one by one, but this is a very tedious process and I'm burned out after processing and installing what feels like 15 ISO's since I grabbed a license.

It's a shame this process has become this tedious. My frustrations might have seemed geared towards NTLite, but the blame has to go to Microsoft turning Windows into a miserable product to use nowadays, what feels more like a cloud service now than an operating system. Tired of all the ads, AI bs, random popups, constant useless feature updates, etc. Kind of ironic they stripped W8 of the start button and said their reasoning was because data showed "nobody really used it". Show the data for all this useless bullshit you're adding.

I wish they would at the very least give more control over all this bs in PRO version like they use to, but they don't even respect group policy settings you set and constnatly go against how you want your PC setup and ignore certain toggles you set. Or Windows updates installing broken drivers, constantly resetting your settings, etc. The Windows experience has become miserable. I can go on and on. I'm about ready to just jump ship to Linux and be done with this misery.

 

[Anonymous Internet User]

I just feel like having one tool do all the editing, changes and removals from beginning to completion of the image is optimal. I would not trust an already modified image.

There are things that NTLite can't remove or does it differently from other tools. Or the other tool removed something NTLite might need. I feel this can result in unforeseen consequences that I may not even catch until I start using the build for a while.

Example: running Rufus options on an NTLite modded ISO will break stuff. It may be the other way around too.

I may be wrong, this is just my gut feeling after using different tools for many years.

***

It is all Microsoft's fault. Nobody should be going through all this hassle and waste all this time just to remove literal garbage from an OS. An OS should be lean, minimal, free of adware, spyware, stable and freely customizable and get the **** out of my way. If I want to remove Edge or OneDrive I should be able to, regardless of what part of the planet I live on. If I don't need CrossDeviceResume, then I should be able to remove it completely. This is bullshit. I just want to run my apps and play my games and I have zero interest in all other MS offerings and their moronic AI ideas. I know better what I want. I just want a passive and stable platform for my software without all the forced trash.

While my 25H2 turned out o be quite good, the amount of time and effort to get there was excessive. I would not expect anyone else to go through that. And I'm not sure I want to do this again, at least not for a long while.

This is going to get worse, no doubt. I don't believe that Microsoft recent reactions were caused by "loss of customer trust", but rather by "loss of market value". Losing 400 billion bucks speaks louder than millions of users complaining. So yeah, we're in for even more Windows enshittification. If Linux desktop apps weren't such crap I would have dumped Windows already.

Sorry for ranting but this has been really getting on my nerves recently. And all the announcements from Nadella and all other idiots from Microslop about more AI garbage and the "evolution" Agentic OS sh*t just piss me off. Nobody wants that. But we don't really have a choice. Apple? Yuck! Linux? Well, maybe...

Sorry... Good luck!

 

[scaramonga]

As regards removing sh*t. I think it makes no difference?

One on left is config I posted before, one on right is with 'Dev Home' and other bits removed (both running @ same time in VM):

 

[Necrosaro]

As regards removing sh*t. I think it makes no difference?

One on left is config I posted before, one on right is with 'Dev Home' and other bits removed (both running @ same time in VM

By difference....what do you mean

 

[scaramonga]

By difference....what do you mean

As in, there is very little point in removing anything, but the obvious, as this bloat ridden system will still perform as intended, regardless.

One could literally spend hours dissecting it's innards, but it's pointless, as I suspect a full, and untouched, copy of Windows 11, will be no different from a copy that has had various stuff removed, nor will it perform any better, as this is the way this 'thing' is designed, unfortunately.

Do not install it in first place is my recommendation, or just 'live' with it if you do.

MS will make sure that one can't remove 'Candy Crush' without breaking 'networking' soon, you can be sure of that

I bought a brand new 5080 laptop today, and my biggest disappointment, is the sh*t that's running on it, once the power button is pressed.

 

[Sonicmojo]

As in, there is very little point in removing anything, but the obvious, as this bloat ridden system will still perform as intended, regardless.

One could literally spend hours dissecting it's innards, but it's pointless, as I suspect a full, and untouched, copy of Windows 11, will be no different from a copy that has had various stuff removed, nor will it perform any better, as this is the way this 'thing' is designed, unfortunately.

To be fair - if you are looking to NT Lite to provide an experience where there are just 8 processes running in Windows and using zero resources - you will be disappointed.

I have always looked to NT Lite to provide me the means to take a "normal" (expected) version of Windows - say like Win 11 Pro and "recreate" a super clean Windows 11 LTSC environment with it.

The endgame being equal to - a version of Windows that has had ALL the chaff stripped away so none of it gets in my way - ever. And allows me to treat the OS for what it is - something that should run my applications, stay in the background and require very little feeding , care or even acknowledgement.

What the endgame is not - is creating a version of Windows where eyeballing the "process" count or RAM usage is some measure of success. If one uses this as a yardstick - you will never get a version you are happy with.

I bought a brand new 5080 laptop today, and my biggest disappointment, is the sh*t that's running on it, once the power button is pressed.

If you allowed that new laptop to run - based on the image you got from the factory (whoever made this laptop) - then you will most certainly be saddled with a ton of useless crap as soon as you pressed the power button.

You need to take that brand new 5080 laptop and create a tight image with NT Lite that ensure nothing but what you need is running.

Done right - NT Lite is a killer toolkit as long as you have a clean understanding of it's intent and capability.

S

 

[Anonymous Internet User]

One could literally spend hours dissecting it's innards, but it's pointless, as I suspect a full, and untouched, copy of Windows 11, will be no different from a copy that has had various stuff removed, nor will it perform any better, as this is the way this 'thing' is designed, unfortunately.

It is different, and I mean a lot different. It feels different, it boots into a fully customized desktop, empty and clean start menu, no ads, no nags, no unwanted apps, no forced updates and no forced reboots, no interruptions. A lot less crap runs in the background, it performs better, runs faster, smoother, it's more stable and a lot less annoying and intrusive. It FEELS better.

My fresh 25H2 boots into 1.6 GB of RAM and around 90 tasks running and everything works. All my fav apps and games run without any further tinkering, unlike some other systems out there. So yeah, it is still worth it. How much longer? No idea. Though yeah, it takes an mount of time and effort that, I agree, is excessive, we shouldn't have to be doing this to get a clean, lean and calm operating system that doesn't throw rocks and feces in our faces at every turn.

The base design of Windows is/was sound. It's the amount of garbage Microslop added, and keeps adding, to it with reckless abandon that turned Windows into annoying and intrusive billboard and data collection tool, that is driven by greed and desire for the mythical "infinite growth" while having zero direction and total disregard for their customers.

In the end it's up to you to chose what suits you better and how much effort you're willing to put in and how many compromises you're willing to tolerate. I'm afraid though there are no good alternatives. We have three choices: Windows, Mac or Linux and all three suck in their own ways. Each has strengths and weaknesses though, but none is perfect and each requires compromises. It is about choosing the lesser evil and balancing time and effort against the end results.

Done right - NT Lite is a killer toolkit as long as you have a clean understanding of it's intent and capability.

And like many good things in life, it ain't easy to get there. But it's worth it. Still.

 

[Anonymous Internet User]

As regards removing sh*t. I think it makes no difference?

One on left is config I posted before, one on right is with 'Dev Home' and other bits removed (both running @ same time in VM):

View attachment 15638

This doesn't tell us much at all. The last time I saw vanilla Windows 11 Pro fresh boot, it had more than 150 tasks running and took close to 4GB of RAM. As I mentioned above, my build takes 1.6 GB and has around 90 tasks running (with Defender). 60+ tasks is a huge difference. This is the garbage that was removed. I can probably do better, but this is good enough and the system is stable, nothing is broken.

 

[Necrosaro]

As in, there is very little point in removing anything, but the obvious, as this bloat ridden system will still perform as intended, regardless.

One could literally spend hours dissecting it's innards, but it's pointless, as I suspect a full, and untouched, copy of Windows 11, will be no different from a copy that has had various stuff removed, nor will it perform any better, as this is the way this 'thing' is designed, unfortunately.

Do not install it in first place is my recommendation, or just 'live' with it if you do.

MS will make sure that one can't remove 'Candy Crush' without breaking 'networking' soon, you can be sure of that

I bought a brand new 5080 laptop today, and my biggest disappointment, is the sh*t that's running on it, once the power button is pressed.

It's the same as saying why stop eating junk food when I can still get fat without it. I like my system to have what it needs and remove the rest. Unfortunately windows has to carry everything because it has to be able to do everything. Reminds me of school a long time ago. They teach you everything even though you may never use most of it when you get older.

I do see a difference in removing stuff(processing,threads,storage). A barebones system is not necessary. Just like working out. Keep the muscle and remove the fat. Don't go skin and bones and you will feel better.

Now others are happy with how the system is but once I went down this road with xp I have never went back and won't.

 

[scaramonga]

Maybe so, but I'd rather eat the dung from a horse that's dropped it's sh*t in the street, than use this system OOBE. I adore NTLite, which is why I always renew my licence each year , but, MS, are unfortunately, way ahead now with the rot, that even this can't tame.

Unless you are prepared to keep the OS 'offline'?, permanently, then it's all in vein.

Mine as is:



Quite a tad out of date lol , but I love it! Macrium backup every 3 days, roll back in seconds if needed 566.36 Nvidia drivers (always), and debloated also, no need for anything else.

 

[16309]

Unless you are prepared to keep the OS 'offline'?, permanently, then it's all in vein.

Quite a tad out of date lol

As long as its stable.

Ive got the last non ESU's for LTSC's 1809 and 21H2 and my 21H2 capture is stable enough.

 

[scaramonga]

Sure is

 

[16309]

The only thing that keeps me using windows for online stuff is IDM(Internet Download Manager) for downloading videos.

 

[scaramonga]

10Gb!, lol, all trimmed down, but 10Gb install media for any OS?, lol WTF!? - 25H2.

 

[luckscent]

Background Intelligent Transfer Service (BITS) Does this help or hinder those who don't use WU?

 

[scaramonga]

I'd leave it alone. Disabling has the effect of the network disconnecting and connecting periodically IMO, even just on a LAN, YMMV

Set it @ Manual, but not disabled.

 

[tistou77]

I deleted it and there were no problems with the network.
I don't use WU